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Center for Congregations Podcast

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S7 E10: Failure Is Totally An Option
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Rev. Dr. J.R. Briggs joins John and Matt to talk about failure. Rev. Dr. Briggs believes that failure is not the end but rather can be a beautiful new beginning.


Resources


Fail by J.R. Briggs (book)


Kairos Partnerships (organization)


How Your Congregation Learns by Tim Shapiro (book)


"There is Hope and Help for Pastors Who Feel 'Stalled'" from ChurchLeaders.com (24 min video)


"Focusing On Health, Not Size" from Center for Congregations (podcast)


"How Do You Define A Healthy Church Aside from The Numbers" by Karl Vaters (article)


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Your congregation is important. But we know that leading and serving in congregations is hard work. Join Matt Burke and other Center for Congregations consultants as they interview thought leaders and experts to encourage, inspire and help you find the right information and resources to address your congregation's needs. Center for Congregations staff will share what they're learning through our work with congregations. Speakers, authors and congregational practitioners will share their stories and best practices to help your congregation thrive.

Podcast
S7 E10: Failure Is Totally An Option
Rev. Dr. J.R. Briggs joins John and Matt to talk about failure. Rev. Dr. Briggs believes that failure is not the end but rather can be a beautiful new beginning. ...
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S7 E9: It's the Little Things
Center for Congregations staffers Kara Faris, John James, Dr. Terrance Bridges and Matt Burke get together to talk about their work with congregations, the trends...
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S7 E8: Bivocational Ministry Is Not New
Rev. Dr. Kristen Bentley joins Kara and Shellie to talk about her research regarding bivocational ministry. Contrary to common understanding, it has been quite common...
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S7 E7: How to Grow Leaders
Rev. Dr. Aaron Perry joins JC and Matt to talk about his new book Lay Leadership: For the Care of Souls . Aaron shares from his experience in congregational...
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S7 E6: Where Two or More Are Gathered . . . You Have Conflict
Laurie Stewart, CEO of Peacemaker Ministries, joins Matt and John to discuss the origins of conflict and how to handle conflict. Resources Peacemaker Ministries...
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Money and Ministry E5: Rev. Dr Marlene Fuller
In this conversation, Reverend Dr. Marlene Fuller shares her journey as a multi-vocational pastor and the financial challenges that come with it. She emphasizes the...
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S7 E5: Connecting with Young Adults
Kelly Minas, Director of the Lilly Endowment Young Adult Initiative, joins Matt and Shellie to talk about the S.T.A.R. (stories, tools, and resources) for Young...
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Money and Ministry E4: Reverend Michelle Brown
In this episode of the Money in Ministry podcast, Reverend Michelle Brown shares her personal journey with finances in ministry, discussing the challenges she faced,...
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S7 E4: Wholeness Through Co-Vocational Ministry
Rev. Mike Snyder joins Shellie and Matt to talk about co-vocational ministry and how it has created a wholeness both for his life and for the life of his congregation....
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Money and Ministry E3: Ramon Rivera
In this episode of the Money in Ministry podcast, Ramon Rivera shares his inspiring journey of faith, challenges, and the miracles he experienced while planting...
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S7 E3: Learning to Communicate Creatively
Rev. Dr. Rickey McCray, senior pastor of The Way Church in Indianapolis, joins Kara and Matt to discuss how communicating creatively, and through creativity, can help...
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Money and Ministry E2: Jason Roberts
In this conversation, Pastor Jason Roberts discusses the challenges and opportunities of talking about money within church communities. He emphasizes the importance of...
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S7 E2: Young Adult Engagement: Listen First
Rev. Dr. Jeff Keuss and Rev. Martin Jimenez, M.Div. join John and Matt to talk about their work and research around young adult engagement in congregations. They share...
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Money and Ministry E1: Father Dave
In this conversation, Father Dave Harris shares his experiences navigating the financial challenges faced by pastoral leaders. He discusses the impact of financial...
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S7 E1: Economic Challenges Facing Pastoral Leaders
Elise Barret and Bere Gil Soto from the Center for Congregation's Economic Challenges Facing Pastoral Leaders program join Matt and Kelly to talk about their work and...
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S6 E23: Congregations Past, Present and Future
Join Center for Congregations staffers Kara Faris, Dr. Terrance Bridges, Dr. JC Campbell and Matt Burke as they discuss the changes in congregations over the last six...
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S6 E22: Money as Part of the Whole Self
Rosario and Callie Picardo join JC and Matt to talk about their new book Healthy Money. Their fascinating hypothesis is that our thoughts and attitudes towards...
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S6 E21: More Than Tips and Tricks
Rev. Ethan Linder, Discipleship Pastor from College Wesleyan Church in Marion Indiana, joins JC and Matt to talk about discipleship and the process they've developed....
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S6 E20: Partnerships Are Powerful
Rev. Dr. Que English, Director of the Center for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the U.S. Department and Health and Human Services, joins Shellie and Matt...
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S6 E19: Educating Is An Art
Propaganda joins JC and Matt to talk about how toRmake complex topics easier for your audience to understand. Propaganda is a rapper, spoken word artist, author,...
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S6 E18: 100 Episodes!
Center for Congregations staffers Rev. Shellie Riggs Jordan, Dr. JC Campbell, Dr. Terrance Bridges, Matt Burke and John James gather to talk about what they're hearing...
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S6 E17: The Power to Form and Transform
Dr. Christina Davis and Rev. Dr. Tim Shapiro join Dr. Bridges and Matt to talk about their new book The Formative Power of Your Congregation. We discuss the...
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S6 E16: Is Your Congregation Healthy?
Melanie Preston joins JC and Matt to share her understanding of how congregations can be healthy organizations. The conversation includes how to define organizational...
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S6 E15: Beyond Dollars: Framing Generosity
Dr. Carlos Perkins, Associate Director of Engagement for the Lake Institute on Faith Faith and Giving joins Dr. Terrance Bridges and Matt Burke to discuss generosity....
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S6 E14: When Crisis Strikes: Congregations Leading Community Aid
Dr. William Cooke, MD. was practicing in a small rural community when a health crisis broke out. He joins Abby and Matt to talk about how various community...
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S6 E13: Make Social Media Social!
Digital marketing consultant Tim Campbell-Smith and digital marketing trainer Kaeli Sweigard join Shellie and Matt to talk about social media and congregations. This...
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S6 E12: Reframing Fundraising
Rev. Dr. Quincy McGhee, Senior Pastor of Lifeway Bible Fellowship and Grants Administrator for Associated Churches of Allen County, joins Abby and Matt to talk about...
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S6 E11: Congregations Are Doing Good and Doing Well
Join Center for Congregations staff Dr. JC Campbell, Dr. Terrance Bridges, Rev. Shellie Riggs Jordan and Matt Burke as they discuss their work with congregations and...
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S6 E10: Faith and The Arts Belong Together
Rev. Lisa Cole Smith, Founding Pastor and Artistic Director of Convergence Church in Alexandria, Virginia, joins JC and Matt to talk about how her congregation weaves...
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S6 E9: What We Can All Learn from Thriving Rural Congregations
Rev. Brad Thie, Director of Duke Divinity School's Thriving Rural Communities Initiative, joins Abby and Matt to talk about his work with congregations in rural North...
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S6 E8: The Role of Artificial Intelligence in Your Congregation
Whether we're prepared or not, Artificial Intelligence is now a part of our every day lives and our future. Jason Moore of Midnight Oil Productions joins Shellie Riggs...
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S6 E7: Kids These Days
Lenmarie Pascall, Director of Coaching at Urban Youth Workers Institute, joins Shellie Riggs Jordan and Matt Burke of the Center for Congregations for an insightful...
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S6 E6: Congregations in a Time of Transition
"Every congregation is unique" — it’s not a cliché, it is true. Rev. Tim Lake, pastor of Union Missionary Baptist Church in Fort Wayne, and Rev. Raymond Dix Jr.,...
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S6 E5: Caring for Your Congregation's Building
Nathan Parr, Facilities Stewardship Specialist with Smart Church Solutions, joins Dr. Terrance Bridges and Matt Burke of the Center for Congregations to discuss the...
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S6 E4: Valuing Roots over ROI — Navigating Change in Congregations
National speaker, advocate and emcee, Rev. Julian DeShazier, joins JC Campbell and Matt Burke from the Center for Congregations to discuss how congregations can better...
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S6 E3: Mental Health Is a Team Sport
Rev. Jermine Alberty joins Abby Miller and Matt Burke from the Center for Congregations to share about his experiences as a pastor and Mental Health First Aid trainer....
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S6 E2: Congregations Can Help with Suicide Prevention
Please note: this episode contains conversation related to suicide. Feel free to pause or stop listening if you need to and seek personal support of a friend or loved...
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S6 E1: Breathe New Life: Finding Rhythms of Rest
As the year begins, allow yourself and your team the power to take hold of your pace and passion for work. Brenda Jank, Founder and CEO of Run Hard, Rest Well, joins...
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S5 E21: Young Adults: Which Ones Do You Mean?
Rev. Dr. Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes joins Abby and Matt to talk about how she envisions engagement with young adults. The conversation focuses on defining what one means by...
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S5 E20: Marketing: The Art of Knowing Your Audience
Tyler Harden, co-founder of Firm Foundations Marketing joins Shellie and Matt to talk about marketing and communications. He discusses the importance of understanding...
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S5 E19: Wholeness through Brokenness
Dr. Nii Addy talks with Shellie and Matt about how he came to his interest in neuroscience and mental health, how understanding neuroscience can benefit knowledge about mental...
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S5 E18: The Liturgy of Politics
Kaitlyn Schiess, author, speaker, podcaster and doctoral student joins Matt and Abby to discuss her book The Liturgy of Politics. The conversation centers on the...
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S5 E17: There Has To Be A Better Way: Mental Health
The co-founders of Courageous Healing, Janell and Aaron Lane, join Abby and Matt to discuss mental health in congregations. The Lanes share how they developed an...
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S5 E16: Multivocational Ministry Can Be Healthy
Dr. Jessica Brown joins Shellie and Matt to discuss the challenges of multivocational ministry: both those in clergy roles and those in volunteer roles who also work....
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S5 E15: Understanding Generational Differences
Rev. Dr. Marcus Carlson joins McKenzie and Matt to talk about generational differences. Generational differences are inevitable but navigating them well can support...
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S5 E14: Focusing on Health, Not Size
Shellie and Matt are joined by Dale Sellers, author of Stalled and Executive Director of the 95Network. Dale discusses misconceptions about smaller congregations and...
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S5 E13: Becoming Culturally Intelligent
Dr. David Livermore, author and speaker on cultural intelligence, talks with Tim Shapiro and Matt Burke about how being curious about culture aids the mission of...
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S5 E12: So What Have We Learned?
Shellie, McKenzie and Matt reflect on the topics and guests from the first half of 2023 and what we've learned. This is a mid-season break and we'll be back with new...
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S5 E11: It Takes a Village: Foster Care and Adoption
Michelle Jackson, foster care advocate for Josiah White's, joins McKenzie and Matt to share how congregations can support kids and families involved in foster care and...
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S5 E10: Telephone Poles Passing by the Window
Rev. Greg Pimlott joins Shellie and Matt to talk about leader self-care, renewal leaves and raising funding. He shares from his 2019 experience of creating a...
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S5 E9: Hybrid Congregations: You Can Be in Two Places at Once
Author and speaker Jason Moore joins McKenzie and Matt to talk about how congregations can serve both in-person and online communities well. Jason shares extremely...
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S5 E8: Laughing Our Way to Perfect Humanity
Dr. Jason Deuman joins Shellie and Matt to share how humor became a big part of his life and how he believes it provides us with the ability to better understand our sacred...
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S5 E7: The Weight of Grief and Loss
Patrick Riecke joins McKenzie and Matt to talk about how the increased number of deaths in the past few years have taken a toll, especially on clergy and chaplains....
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S5 E6: Ministering to the Whole Person
Dr. Jessica Brown joins Shellie and Matt to talk about the trends of mental health in congregations. She also shares from her background and expertise how...
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S5 E5: Bringing Good Things to Digital Spaces
McKenzie and Matt talk with Tim Campbell-Smith about social and digital media and congregations. Tim has some great tips on very specific aspects of social media...
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S5 E3: Am I Allowed to Come In?
Marketer and Millennial Kaeli Sweigard joins Ben and Matt to talk about her journey into congregational life. Topics include what congregations need to know about how they...
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S5 E2: What Do YOU Mean by Community Ministry?
Aimee Laramore joins Ben and Matt to talk about community ministry. Topics include the nature of what the different definitions of congregation and community are, focusing on...
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S5 E1: Conversations about Race are Hard
The hosts of the Shades of Hope podcast, Pastor Jeff Krajewski and Rev. Dr. Clarence Moore join Ben and Matt to candidly discuss racial justice in congregations and in our...
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S5 E4: You Are Welcome Here
Shellie and Matt talk with Dr. Winterbourne Harrison-Jones, senior pastor of Witherspoon Presbyterian Church. Dr. Harrison-Jones has long been interested in how to...
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S4 E23: Ghosts of Congregations Past, Present and Future 2022 Edition
President of the Center for Congregations Tim Shapiro joins Ben and Matt to discuss what the Center for Congregations has seen in regards to trends, happenings and work in...
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S4 E22: Building Relationships: What We Can Learn from Congolese Christians
Ben and Matt spoke with Emmanuel about the ways that the Congolese Christian community is learning to adapt to life in Indiana. As they unpacked both the challenges and...
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S4 E21: The Next Faithful Step: Discernment in Congregational Life
Understanding how to determine your next faithful step is critically important in congregational life. Center for Congregations president Tim Shapiro and Rev. Stephen...
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S4 E20: Cultivating the Edges: Belonging and Racial Equity in White Congregations
Rev. Dr. Seth Richardson of Gravity Leadership joins the podcast this week to discuss the cultural challenges white congregations face when they get serious about...
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S4 E19: Keeping it Beta: Innovation and Congregations
Congregations are a treasure of rich traditions: cultural, communal, historical and theological. But how do you keep tradition from turning into stagnation? This week we...
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S4 E18: Clergy Are People Too: No, Really.
In this episode of the Center for Congregations podcast, Marty Sawyers of the Full Strength Network and John Opalewski of Converge Coaching share their experience and insight...
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S4 E17: Be the Bridge: Spanning Cultural Gaps
As people of faith, we are often called to be cultural brokers within our communities by identifying gaps that exist, asking the right questions, and harnessing the power of...
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S4 E16: Invisible People: Multiculturalism in Your Community
Your community is likely more multicultural than you may realize. In this episode of the Center for Congregations podcast, we speak with Sandy Garcia of Amistad Cristiana...
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S4 E15: Suffering in Silence: Addressing Mental Health
First, the bad news: mental health issues exist in your congregation. The good news is that there are a wealth of resources and people who can help and a myriad of ways to...
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S4 E14: Are You Seeing What I'm Seeing?
You likely deal with some kind of diversity in your congregational life. Whether that be ethnic, cultural, generational or some other kind of diversity. Wilisha Scaife believes...
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S4 E13: More Than a Classroom: Reimagining Faith Formation and Discipleship
At the heart of every congregation is the desire to pass on the beliefs and practices of its tradition. This can be called lots of things: catechism, faith formation,...
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S4 Mid-Season Break: A Look Back and A Look Ahead
In this short episode, Ben and Matt recap the guests and topics thus far and preview the rest of season 4. We'll be back in action with you all on August 10, 2022! ...
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S4 E12: Stories > Stances
This episode provides the narratives of three members of the LGBTQ+ community focused on their lives in congregations. These stories highlight the highs and lows of their...
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S4 E11: Beyond Feisty and Divisive: Caring for LGBTQ Youth
In congregations many have questions and concerns about LGBTQ+ issues. Regardless of your theological stance, it's important to know how to care for youth that may identify...
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S4 E10: Possibility-Lessons from Jazz
Dr. Kirk Byron Jones joins Matt and Ben to discuss what we can learn from jazz about beauty, creativity and liberation.  Resources ...
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S4 E9: What's Right with Congregations
Former Center for Congregations staff members Nancy DeMott and Doug Hanner join Matt to share stories about their work at the Center. These stories highlight what congregations...
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S4 E8: When Digital Ministry Is Not Plug-And-Play
Rev. Dr. Rosario Picardo joins Ben and Matt to discuss digital ministry in congregational life. Roz is the co-author of Fresh Expressions in a Digital Age. In this interview...
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S4 E7: Remembering Our History In Order To Heal
Ben and Matt talk with Rev. Sue Park-Hur about the challenges facing the Asian American and Pacific Islander (AAPI) community. They discuss the model-minority myth, the rise in...
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S4 E6: Navigating Grief and Lamentation
Matt and Ben talk with Chaplain Jon Swanson about what it means to explore the ways we manage loss and disappointment.   Resources CRG-Strategic...
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S4 E5: Moving Forward - Anti-racism in Congregational Life
Kelly and Ben talk with Professor Drew Hart about the scope of antiracism work in congregations since the racial unrest of 2020.   Resources Trouble...
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S4 B4: The Review - Equal Justice Initiative Museum and Memorial
Ben and Abby explore Ben's visit to the Equal Justice Initiative Museum and Memorial in Montgomery, Alabama.   Resources: ...
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S4 E4: Pandemic and Purpose
Matt and Shellie explore the changing nature of congregational life with Pastor Rob Dyer of Ministry Architects. Rob encourages congregations to explore the question...
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S4 B3: The Review-Facing Death: Learning from Kate Bowler
Abby and Ben reflect on several podcast interviews with Kate Bowler and explore what it means to face the gravity of life with grace and joy.   Resources ...
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S4 E3: Is Race The Real Problem?
Racial division is a current topic in many arenas of life. However, Rev. Wallace Butts asks the question "Is race the real issue here?" Matt and Ben talk with Rev....
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S4 B2: The Review - Can I Get Your Number? Unpacking the Enneagram
Abby and Ben discuss The Paths Between Us and talk through the reasons they find the Enneagram both useful and fascinating.   Resources: ...
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S4 E2: Providing Touch in a Touchless Time
Dee Dee (Deidre) Gray and Adrian Warren join Ben and Matt to talk about how congregations can improve their digital presence.   Resources ...
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S4 B1: The Review - Learning from Mars Hill
In this fun bonus episode of the Center for Congregations Podcast, Ben and Abby discuss the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill and explore what we can learn from it.
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S4 E1: 3 Big Questions
Kara Powell from Fuller Youth Institute joins Ben and Matt to discuss the new book 3 Big Questions That Change Every Teenager. Resources ...
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S3 E11: Ghosts
Riffing off of Charles Dickens' classic novel, Ben and Matt and Tim Shapiro, reflect on trends in the life of congregational ministry.
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S3 E10: Gloriously Out Of Place
Joe Johns and So Min Oo join Ben and Matt to discuss the relationship their congregations have built while celebrating their differences.   Resources ...
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S3 E9: The Joys of Evaluation!
Kelly Minas, the Center for Congregations' Associate Director for Evaluation, joins Ben and Matt to discuss the importance of evaluation, metrics and analytics for...
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S3 E8: Forced Into The Water
Mike Palmer joins Ben and Matt to unpack emerging trends in education. They explore how these trends will affect religious education and congregational life moving forward....
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S3 E7: Memento Mori
Rev. Sabrina Gray joins Ben and Matt to discuss the importance of end of life planning, and talks through how leaders can initiate those conversations within their community....
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S3 E6: Don't Be A Clergy Killer
Rev. Callie Smith and Dr. Rob Saler join Matt and Ben to discuss the Lilly Endowment Clergy Renewal Program. They unpack the importance of rest and renewal for both clergy...
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S3 E5: Who Are You? Marketing and Branding for Congregations
Manuel Corazzari joins Matt and Ben to discuss marketing and branding for congregations including the importance of knowing your unique identity.   Resources...
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S3 E4: Make It Personal
Pastor Javier Mondragon joins Ben and Matt to discuss the challenges and benefits of leading a multicultural congregation. Resources: Access the resources mentioned...
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S3 E3: Worship as the Work of the People
David Gungor joins Ben and Matt to talk about how worship is more than just singing together. He also discusses how Good Shepherd New York is an integrated community where the...
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S3 E2: Never-ending worship: Where preparation and inspiration meet
Shellie and Ben speak with John Ray from Light of the World Christian Church about all that it takes to plan a successful worship service. They discuss music as a specific...
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S3 E1: Stay Ready: Preparing to Prepare
Ben sits down with Aimee Laramore and Louise Jackson to unpack the ins and outs of strategic planning. They take you into the mind of strategic planning consultants and...
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S2 B2: The Review - Tips on Working with Tech Volunteers
Pastor John Stange joins Kate and Ben to explain the best practices for engaging with tech volunteers.   Links: http://www.opensong.org/
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S2 E12: The Value of the Enneagram in Congregational Spaces
Enneargram writer, teacher and coach Leanette Pokuwaah joins Ben and Matt to talk about how the enneagram can be used well in congregational contexts. She also discusses the...
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S2 E11: The Marriage of Mental Health and Ministry
Dr. Christina Jones Davis, Clinical Professor of Pastoral Theology and Marriage and Family Therapy at Christian Theological Seminary (CTS), sits down with Ben and Matt to...
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S2 E10: Storytelling that Changes the World
Musician, speaker and activist Propaganda joins Ben and Matt to discuss how storytelling is foundational to being human and to fostering change. They also also talk about his...
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S2 E9 Rural Congregations: A Story of Pain and Promise
Allen Stanton joins Ben and Matt to discuss the importance of congregations in rural communities. He highlights their work as anchor institutions while also addressing the...
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S2 E8: Getting Schooled on Interim Ministry
Rev. Janae Pitts-Murdock, senior pastor of Light of the World Christian Church and former interim pastor, joins Ben and Matt to unpack what it takes to have a successful...
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S2 E7: A Primer on Racial Equity
McKenzie Scott Lewis, the northwest director of the Center for Congregations talks with Ben and Matt about the challenges and opportunities faced by congregations in seeking to...
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S2 B1: The Review - Basic Tech Infrastructure for Livestreaming
In this bonus episode, Associate Director for Resources Kate White sits down with Pastor Bruce Colbert, Systems Consultant for Custom Sound Design. Bruce shares three topics...
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S2 E6: Fear and Anger: Christian Nationalism among Young Adults
PhD candidate Michael Rotolo joins Ben and Matt to unpack the research around Christian Nationalism as it relates to congregations and young adult engagement. Michael's...
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S2 E5: Courting Justice
Ben and Matt connect with Pastor Bere Gil Soto, lead pastor of Iglesia Hermandad Cristiana, to talk about what it's like to lead a multi-cultural and multi-lingual...
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S2 E4: Bring Your Whole Self
Dr. Alma Zaragoza-Petty, one of the co-founders of the Prickly Pear Collective, joins Matt and Ben to discuss creating authentic community where everyone is encouraged to bring...
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S2 E3: Tech: It's Not as Complicated as You Think
Pastor John Girton joins Ben and Matt to talk about excellence in online worship experiences using technology. They also discuss what's next for congregations and the...
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S2 E2 Waving the Banner for Youth Ministry
In this episode Ben and Matt are joined by Center for Congregations director Shellie Riggs Jordan as they interview Mark Oestreicher (a.k.a. Marko) of The Youth Cartel. Marko...
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S2 E1 Wisdom to Start Your New Year
Aimee Laramore, lead consultant at AlLyd Solutions, joins Ben and Matt to discuss the importance of recognizing the assets your congregation has and the importance of using...
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S1 E8: What Went Right in 2020
Ben and Matt are joined by southwest director Wendy McCormick, northwest director McKenzie Scott Lewis and president of the Center for Congregations Tim Shapiro. Each guest...
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S1 E7 Exchanging Pews for Strollers
Victoria Sun Esparza joins Ben and Matt to talk about Human Centered Design and applying it in congregations. This process is a way for you to listen well to the needs of your...
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S1 E6 Agents of Unity
Bishop Grant joins Ben and Matt to discuss the importance of getting back to the basics of faith. He challenges faith leaders and congregations to remember to center the people...
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S1 E5 Whosoever
This week Ben and Tim Shapiro, president of the Center for congregations talk with Rev. Dr. Alton B. Pollard III from Louisville Presbyterian Seminary. Dr. Pollard shares with...
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S1 E4: Kicked Off a Cliff
Pastor Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes of the Double Love Experience joins Matt, Ben and Wendy to discuss what she's observed about rapidly changing systems in congregational life....
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S1 E3: Do we have to hide our pain?
Hillary McBride joins Ben and Matt to talk about how congregations can be places of healing for those dealing with mental health issues. We explore Hillary's own experience...
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S1 E2: Tapping into Experience with Tim Shapiro
This week Ben and Matt talk with the president of the Center for Congregations, Tim Shapiro. Tim shares his experiences as a senior pastor for 18 years and from his 18 years of...
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S1 E1: Where have all the young people gone?
Matt and Ben sit down with Science Mike to discuss the problems and possibilities with engaging young adults. Congregations across religious and denominational lines are...
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Rewind: The Liturgy of Politics
Enjoy this episode that was originally launched in November of 2023. Kaitlyn Schiess, author, speaker, podcaster and doctoral student joins Matt and Abby to...
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